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	<title>Comments on: If not results, then what? The risks of not having a results agenda</title>
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	<description>duncan green poverty to power oxfam development</description>
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		<title>By: Taitos Matafeni</title>
		<link>http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756&#038;cpage=1#comment-409248</link>
		<dc:creator>Taitos Matafeni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What other agenda can we have if we don&#039;t have a results agenda? What is a results agenda?I think we need to appreciate that the term results is a packed term, referring to three levels of data - outputs, outcome and impacts. 

So i think what we need to be discussing is how we balance our results agenda and move away from focusing on one set of results (outputs- the numbers game) at the expense of the others (outcome and impacts - hard to measure ^_^). 

I think we have always had a &quot;results&quot; agenda in development and all three levels have their role - for politicians, numbers may be all they want to work with but that does not mean that development managers then neglect the other results (outcomes and impacts) that make our work enjoyable... I always say &quot;outputs  just measure how busy one is&quot;, where as &quot;outcome and impacts demonstrate how effective in delivering and sustaining change one is&quot;. 

Lets not only welcome the focus on results, lets support a more balanced approach to results with the knowledge that different levels of results will be useful in different ways to different people. As development managers we need results at all three levels and our M&amp;E systems should allow us to have produce and communicate at these levels so as to meet the demands of our diverse stakeholders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What other agenda can we have if we don&#8217;t have a results agenda? What is a results agenda?I think we need to appreciate that the term results is a packed term, referring to three levels of data &#8211; outputs, outcome and impacts. </p>
<p>So i think what we need to be discussing is how we balance our results agenda and move away from focusing on one set of results (outputs- the numbers game) at the expense of the others (outcome and impacts &#8211; hard to measure ^_^). </p>
<p>I think we have always had a &#8220;results&#8221; agenda in development and all three levels have their role &#8211; for politicians, numbers may be all they want to work with but that does not mean that development managers then neglect the other results (outcomes and impacts) that make our work enjoyable&#8230; I always say &#8220;outputs  just measure how busy one is&#8221;, where as &#8220;outcome and impacts demonstrate how effective in delivering and sustaining change one is&#8221;. </p>
<p>Lets not only welcome the focus on results, lets support a more balanced approach to results with the knowledge that different levels of results will be useful in different ways to different people. As development managers we need results at all three levels and our M&amp;E systems should allow us to have produce and communicate at these levels so as to meet the demands of our diverse stakeholders.</p>
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		<title>By: Tikaram Adhikari</title>
		<link>http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756&#038;cpage=1#comment-406338</link>
		<dc:creator>Tikaram Adhikari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 19:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I know and agree that good relationship is important but at the same time we also need the results for accountability purposes and to substantiate what was achieved due tom the investment of the amount. Relationship and working towards results should go hand in hand so that you are achieving the twin objectives simultaneously. One of the objective of developing and focusing on result statements and depending on performance evaluation is to build good relationship as well. So both would go hand in hand as the target for both is to deliver good programs for the communities and the poor people in development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know and agree that good relationship is important but at the same time we also need the results for accountability purposes and to substantiate what was achieved due tom the investment of the amount. Relationship and working towards results should go hand in hand so that you are achieving the twin objectives simultaneously. One of the objective of developing and focusing on result statements and depending on performance evaluation is to build good relationship as well. So both would go hand in hand as the target for both is to deliver good programs for the communities and the poor people in development.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt R</title>
		<link>http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756&#038;cpage=1#comment-49405</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>great point, Abi, I think this is the crux of the debate. Who defines the &quot;change we want to see&quot; (organisational priorities)? Does it flow from the needs of poor/vulnerable communities? Or is it being vaguely aligned to some development framework over which beneficiaries have had little voice anyway. As Matt said, perhaps the destination is the same in both arguments, but we just have to find middle ground on the path there. Either way, this debate is wholly useful in making sure that the focus on value for money (as currently defined) doesn&#039;t serve to alienate the whole idea of development in the first place and replace it with a short-termism designed solely to satisfy the visibility and accountability demands of rich nations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great point, Abi, I think this is the crux of the debate. Who defines the &#8220;change we want to see&#8221; (organisational priorities)? Does it flow from the needs of poor/vulnerable communities? Or is it being vaguely aligned to some development framework over which beneficiaries have had little voice anyway. As Matt said, perhaps the destination is the same in both arguments, but we just have to find middle ground on the path there. Either way, this debate is wholly useful in making sure that the focus on value for money (as currently defined) doesn&#8217;t serve to alienate the whole idea of development in the first place and replace it with a short-termism designed solely to satisfy the visibility and accountability demands of rich nations.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756&#038;cpage=1#comment-49398</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>To an extent, I think Claire and Ros go different routes to the same thing - both accept that the bog standard results agenda is rubbish - Ros&#039;s solution is to support domestic change processes, Claire&#039;s solution is to have as the key result &#039;delivering what poor people really want&#039; so to my mind, if we can accept that domestic change processes are in the direction of &#039;what people really want&#039; then these two results might not be that different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To an extent, I think Claire and Ros go different routes to the same thing &#8211; both accept that the bog standard results agenda is rubbish &#8211; Ros&#8217;s solution is to support domestic change processes, Claire&#8217;s solution is to have as the key result &#8216;delivering what poor people really want&#8217; so to my mind, if we can accept that domestic change processes are in the direction of &#8216;what people really want&#8217; then these two results might not be that different.</p>
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		<title>By: Abi</title>
		<link>http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756&#038;cpage=1#comment-49382</link>
		<dc:creator>Abi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756#comment-49382</guid>
		<description>Just to say that for some of us the challenge is not particularly limited to &quot;counting&quot;, it is also about what has termed as the &quot;change we want to see&quot;. A lot of times the change we want to see is probably not the change poor/vulnerable communities &quot;want to see&quot;.

Yes, it is absolutely necessary to show results (although I feel more comfortable with terms such as outcome and impact), otherwise we are at risk of being accused of what we accuse governments of on a daily basis. But my fear is that the pattern the current VFM is taking is to have results/change determined through the lenses of donors. The recent review BAR and MAR processes and outcomes appear to support that</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to say that for some of us the challenge is not particularly limited to &#8220;counting&#8221;, it is also about what has termed as the &#8220;change we want to see&#8221;. A lot of times the change we want to see is probably not the change poor/vulnerable communities &#8220;want to see&#8221;.</p>
<p>Yes, it is absolutely necessary to show results (although I feel more comfortable with terms such as outcome and impact), otherwise we are at risk of being accused of what we accuse governments of on a daily basis. But my fear is that the pattern the current VFM is taking is to have results/change determined through the lenses of donors. The recent review BAR and MAR processes and outcomes appear to support that</p>
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		<title>By: Matt R</title>
		<link>http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756&#038;cpage=1#comment-49367</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>very interesting back and forth, but I agree with Claire that we sometimes debate at cross purposes. Many have tended to equate results with numbers/measurement. The idea behind RBM in the first place was actually something more systemic: to get aid agencies to think strategically about the results they want to see (demand-driven), rather than what they can do with the money they have (supply side). Instead of focusing on the delivery of scattered training activities and goods and services which may or may not be needed or have any useful impact (a huge problem previously in large bureaucracies - one that has far from disappeared but has at least got better, I would argue, in the UN system), the plan was to prioritse and get people thinking about the real-world development changes they want to see (whether this is do with rights, power, relationships, capacity etc.) The challenge was to define these results and find out the best way of getting there, bearing in mind, as Rosalind has argued, that no one agency has the power to enact sustainable change alone. 

I worry that if we reduce the debate on results to just value-for-money and counting, and thus move aid away from results, we&#039;ll lose this key focus. In my mind, the debate should be less about whether we have a results-based agenda (I&#039;m not quite sure how we can justify going back to the old input-based-planning model) and instead be more about how these results can be defined, how they can be measured and what models we use. Rigid logframes and quantitative indicators clearly have huge and acknowledged limitations, but the fact that they are widely used to this day speaks volumes about the lack of an alternative. 

As Serverino and Ray point out in the excellent &#039;End of ODA&#039;, &quot;in the absence of credible indicators of aid impact, development agencies are assessed according to an extremely weak proxy: their capacity to generate visible projects and disburse high volumes of funding quickly&quot;. 

So results are now seen as something akin to number of children in school and relative cost to the taxpayer in donor country X. But this wasn&#039;t what development results were meant to look like, and it seems the whole idea of results has been hijacked, simplified and re-packaged in the guise of value-for-money. 

To me, the debate should be not whether results but whither results.
Can outcome mapping be useful? What do the results we want to contribute towards look like? Can we find a way of setting out a path towards these results (and agreeing how to measure them) which takes into account the in-country reality? How does this take into account broader structural considerations and the interplay of aid, trade, taxation, finance, industry? What role can impact assessments play?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very interesting back and forth, but I agree with Claire that we sometimes debate at cross purposes. Many have tended to equate results with numbers/measurement. The idea behind RBM in the first place was actually something more systemic: to get aid agencies to think strategically about the results they want to see (demand-driven), rather than what they can do with the money they have (supply side). Instead of focusing on the delivery of scattered training activities and goods and services which may or may not be needed or have any useful impact (a huge problem previously in large bureaucracies &#8211; one that has far from disappeared but has at least got better, I would argue, in the UN system), the plan was to prioritse and get people thinking about the real-world development changes they want to see (whether this is do with rights, power, relationships, capacity etc.) The challenge was to define these results and find out the best way of getting there, bearing in mind, as Rosalind has argued, that no one agency has the power to enact sustainable change alone. </p>
<p>I worry that if we reduce the debate on results to just value-for-money and counting, and thus move aid away from results, we&#8217;ll lose this key focus. In my mind, the debate should be less about whether we have a results-based agenda (I&#8217;m not quite sure how we can justify going back to the old input-based-planning model) and instead be more about how these results can be defined, how they can be measured and what models we use. Rigid logframes and quantitative indicators clearly have huge and acknowledged limitations, but the fact that they are widely used to this day speaks volumes about the lack of an alternative. </p>
<p>As Serverino and Ray point out in the excellent &#8216;End of ODA&#8217;, &#8220;in the absence of credible indicators of aid impact, development agencies are assessed according to an extremely weak proxy: their capacity to generate visible projects and disburse high volumes of funding quickly&#8221;. </p>
<p>So results are now seen as something akin to number of children in school and relative cost to the taxpayer in donor country X. But this wasn&#8217;t what development results were meant to look like, and it seems the whole idea of results has been hijacked, simplified and re-packaged in the guise of value-for-money. </p>
<p>To me, the debate should be not whether results but whither results.<br />
Can outcome mapping be useful? What do the results we want to contribute towards look like? Can we find a way of setting out a path towards these results (and agreeing how to measure them) which takes into account the in-country reality? How does this take into account broader structural considerations and the interplay of aid, trade, taxation, finance, industry? What role can impact assessments play?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756&#038;cpage=1#comment-49270</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 16:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m not sure that the example given is meaningful -- corruption is corruption, and neither approach guarantees that the moneys won&#039;t be simply stolen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure that the example given is meaningful &#8212; corruption is corruption, and neither approach guarantees that the moneys won&#8217;t be simply stolen.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Hudson</title>
		<link>http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756&#038;cpage=1#comment-49238</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Hudson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756#comment-49238</guid>
		<description>Thanks to all for this very timely debate. For my money, I do think that it is in part about how we think change happens and the role that we think donors play in bringing about change.

I say this carefully, as I have not quite taken off my DFID hat!Donors pretend to have more control than they do, because that is what they think their political/taxpayer masters want to hear. Maybe it is or maybe we should give taxpayers more credit for their ability to acknowledge that the world is messy?

The reality of course is that in many spheres of development, donors have very little control over how change happens. The challenge for DFID and others is to navigate this tension.

For what it&#039;s worth, I wobbled off the fence to vote yes in the poll ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to all for this very timely debate. For my money, I do think that it is in part about how we think change happens and the role that we think donors play in bringing about change.</p>
<p>I say this carefully, as I have not quite taken off my DFID hat!Donors pretend to have more control than they do, because that is what they think their political/taxpayer masters want to hear. Maybe it is or maybe we should give taxpayers more credit for their ability to acknowledge that the world is messy?</p>
<p>The reality of course is that in many spheres of development, donors have very little control over how change happens. The challenge for DFID and others is to navigate this tension.</p>
<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I wobbled off the fence to vote yes in the poll <img src='http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: James Stevenson</title>
		<link>http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756&#038;cpage=1#comment-49233</link>
		<dc:creator>James Stevenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756#comment-49233</guid>
		<description>Thanks to Ros, Claire and Duncan. 

I&#039;m with Claire on this one.

The average size of Oxfam&#039;s country programmes is about a million pounds a year or so (I may be out of touch now, with the consolidation across the different Oxfams that is currently taking place, but indulge me). These are then divided among a number of programmes and within them, projects. Small amounts of money in the grand scheme of things.

Working on evaluation for Oxfam, the biggest challenge was figuring out exactly what was being done in these projects, as they were all described in terms of the impact they were going to have (e.g. &quot;Women&#039;s empowerment&quot;; &quot;Improving the resilience of livelihoods&quot;) rather than the necessarily much more modest means they had at their disposal to actually achieve these (e.g giving money and training to three local NGOs to represent themselves better in national policy circles).

I think that by focusing on results we helped to bring this aspiration gap to light. I got good feedback from staff for the training on logic models that we organised, where everyone was encouraged to draw diagrams describing the change they wished to see, and to think about what is necessary and sufficient to achieve it. This was based on expected cause-effect relationships. IF we do this AND the government does this THEN we think this OR this will happen. Debates about killer assumptions ensued. It was, whisper it, fun.

The things that were then actually measured (as determined by the staff) were just the points of information that gave an insight into whether our diagrammatic story about the future was playing out in reality. The main benefit of the whole results push was this debate about strategy and the need for realism and clarity. Utopianism is for the campaigns teams - achieving development is difficult but worth the effort. Any sensible donor will recognise this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to Ros, Claire and Duncan. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m with Claire on this one.</p>
<p>The average size of Oxfam&#8217;s country programmes is about a million pounds a year or so (I may be out of touch now, with the consolidation across the different Oxfams that is currently taking place, but indulge me). These are then divided among a number of programmes and within them, projects. Small amounts of money in the grand scheme of things.</p>
<p>Working on evaluation for Oxfam, the biggest challenge was figuring out exactly what was being done in these projects, as they were all described in terms of the impact they were going to have (e.g. &#8220;Women&#8217;s empowerment&#8221;; &#8220;Improving the resilience of livelihoods&#8221;) rather than the necessarily much more modest means they had at their disposal to actually achieve these (e.g giving money and training to three local NGOs to represent themselves better in national policy circles).</p>
<p>I think that by focusing on results we helped to bring this aspiration gap to light. I got good feedback from staff for the training on logic models that we organised, where everyone was encouraged to draw diagrams describing the change they wished to see, and to think about what is necessary and sufficient to achieve it. This was based on expected cause-effect relationships. IF we do this AND the government does this THEN we think this OR this will happen. Debates about killer assumptions ensued. It was, whisper it, fun.</p>
<p>The things that were then actually measured (as determined by the staff) were just the points of information that gave an insight into whether our diagrammatic story about the future was playing out in reality. The main benefit of the whole results push was this debate about strategy and the need for realism and clarity. Utopianism is for the campaigns teams &#8211; achieving development is difficult but worth the effort. Any sensible donor will recognise this.</p>
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		<title>By: Sceptical Secondo</title>
		<link>http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756&#038;cpage=1#comment-49221</link>
		<dc:creator>Sceptical Secondo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Mar 2011 06:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=4756#comment-49221</guid>
		<description>It would seem beneficial to me, if we did ourselves the favour of thinking hard about the distinction between accountability and countability. It shouldn&#039;t be so hard but quite clearly is, which I&#039;ll get back to.

I believe there is all reason to pursue a focused, accountable, results-based agenda for all the justifications in Claire Melamed&#039;s post.

But for all the reasons laid out in Rosalyn Eyben&#039;s, if that equates to nothing more than that which can be counted in binary numbers, little will those results accomplish.

My own perception of why it has proven so difficult to combine the two assertions -and in practice separate accountability from countability- is that our models of change are flawed. As long as we remain stranded on shoulders of social sciences that brought us far but never beyond linear cause-effect thinking, I don&#039;t see us really getting our heads around it.

More research is advised :)

/Søren</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would seem beneficial to me, if we did ourselves the favour of thinking hard about the distinction between accountability and countability. It shouldn&#8217;t be so hard but quite clearly is, which I&#8217;ll get back to.</p>
<p>I believe there is all reason to pursue a focused, accountable, results-based agenda for all the justifications in Claire Melamed&#8217;s post.</p>
<p>But for all the reasons laid out in Rosalyn Eyben&#8217;s, if that equates to nothing more than that which can be counted in binary numbers, little will those results accomplish.</p>
<p>My own perception of why it has proven so difficult to combine the two assertions -and in practice separate accountability from countability- is that our models of change are flawed. As long as we remain stranded on shoulders of social sciences that brought us far but never beyond linear cause-effect thinking, I don&#8217;t see us really getting our heads around it.</p>
<p>More research is advised <img src='http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>/Søren</p>
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