Comments on: Robert Chambers – why don’t all development organizations do immersions? http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608 duncan green poverty to power oxfam development Tue, 21 May 2013 15:45:19 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Robert http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608&cpage=1#comment-243230 Robert Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:00:39 +0000 http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608#comment-243230 Good post about an issue that I feel is overlooked. I started my work in Africa as a Peace Corps Volunteer and lived for 3 years in two different villages with Senegalese host families. I cannot overstate the profound influence this experience had on me and my subsequent career in the aid field. It allowed me to understand the nuances of rural life in farming villages. It also allowed me to see firsthand the impact of Big Aid on people. There really is no substitute for speaking the language, sharing food and sticking around. The experience didn't give me a lot of tech skills, but it did give me something a lot more valuable - a sense of humility about the limits (and potential) of an outsider's presence in other people's lives. Good post about an issue that I feel is overlooked. I started my work in Africa as a Peace Corps Volunteer and lived for 3 years in two different villages with Senegalese host families. I cannot overstate the profound influence this experience had on me and my subsequent career in the aid field. It allowed me to understand the nuances of rural life in farming villages. It also allowed me to see firsthand the impact of Big Aid on people. There really is no substitute for speaking the language, sharing food and sticking around. The experience didn’t give me a lot of tech skills, but it did give me something a lot more valuable – a sense of humility about the limits (and potential) of an outsider’s presence in other people’s lives.

]]> By: Peter http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608&cpage=1#comment-241966 Peter Wed, 12 Sep 2012 12:11:07 +0000 http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608#comment-241966 I'm with MMtega on this one. Immersion is something best undertaken in a, well, swimming pool. I’m with MMtega on this one. Immersion is something best undertaken in a, well, swimming pool.

]]> By: Mark Robertson http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608&cpage=1#comment-241883 Mark Robertson Wed, 12 Sep 2012 10:22:10 +0000 http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608#comment-241883 A good question is how long does an immersion need to be, to be effective at giving an insight to actual problems. I would maybe suggest that it is problem specific, for farmers & their communities often immersion would need to be at least from one growing season to the next to get a good idea of problems. I still feel living & working in a country for many years with friends in local communities is the best way to appreciate the complexity of problems that beset poor communities. I spent 5 years in Namibia, it was an eye-opening experience. A good question is how long does an immersion need to be, to be effective at giving an insight to actual problems. I would maybe suggest that it is problem specific, for farmers & their communities often immersion would need to be at least from one growing season to the next to get a good idea of problems. I still feel living & working in a country for many years with friends in local communities is the best way to appreciate the complexity of problems that beset poor communities. I spent 5 years in Namibia, it was an eye-opening experience.

]]> By: Phil http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608&cpage=1#comment-241042 Phil Mon, 10 Sep 2012 17:57:18 +0000 http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608#comment-241042 As an afterthought, I am reminded of the old joke of the fellow looking for something lost under a streetlight at night. Another fellow steps in to assist him, and after they search in vain for a while, the newcomer finally asks, "So where again did you think you lost it"? To which the first fellow replies, "Way over there". The second fellow asks incredulously, "So why are you looking here"?! To which the first replies, "The light is better"! The moral of the story should be clear. It may be easier not to venture off into the dark, but that may be precisely where you find the things of value. As an afterthought, I am reminded of the old joke of the fellow looking for something lost under a streetlight at night. Another fellow steps in to assist him, and after they search in vain for a while, the newcomer finally asks, “So where again did you think you lost it”? To which the first fellow replies, “Way over there”. The second fellow asks incredulously, “So why are you looking here”?! To which the first replies, “The light is better”!
The moral of the story should be clear. It may be easier not to venture off into the dark, but that may be precisely where you find the things of value.

]]> By: Phil http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608&cpage=1#comment-241023 Phil Mon, 10 Sep 2012 17:39:44 +0000 http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608#comment-241023 I am rather surprised at some of the comments, that state, more or less, "Well this is all very good, but it won't solve the world's problems!" I fear the authors are right, that there are all sorts of excuses for not getting out of your comfortable world and spending time in another's world. How many marine biologists do you know that don't swim? I do agree however, that perhaps nothing may come of it. It is indeed very, very much an individulat experience. I also know that I have gained valuable insights and knowledge (wisdom?)that would have been impossible without it. I taught experiential learning in Tanzania for 4 years. In addition to living for extended periods in the bush with various local communities, I arranged homestays for my students while in town. It should be no surprise that some got more out of it than others. For those that say that little or no benefit can be had, you are probably right. You yourself may get little benefit, but that may be more a reflection of your individuality that of the intrinsic value of cultural and situational immersion. Bottom line - you never know until you try it. I am rather surprised at some of the comments, that state, more or less, “Well this is all very good, but it won’t solve the world’s problems!” I fear the authors are right, that there are all sorts of excuses for not getting out of your comfortable world and spending time in another’s world. How many marine biologists do you know that don’t swim? I do agree however, that perhaps nothing may come of it. It is indeed very, very much an individulat experience. I also know that I have gained valuable insights and knowledge (wisdom?)that would have been impossible without it. I taught experiential learning in Tanzania for 4 years. In addition to living for extended periods in the bush with various local communities, I arranged homestays for my students while in town. It should be no surprise that some got more out of it than others. For those that say that little or no benefit can be had, you are probably right. You yourself may get little benefit, but that may be more a reflection of your individuality that of the intrinsic value of cultural and situational immersion. Bottom line – you never know until you try it.

]]> By: Pete http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608&cpage=1#comment-240973 Pete Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:13:51 +0000 http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608#comment-240973 How far into an organisation should the offer of immersion trips go? I work in the IT department of a large NGO in the UK. I don't need the knowledge gained from an immersion trip to help me in my daily struggles with SQL programming, but I would like the opportunity to go and I'm sure it would improve my motivation hugely. In my case, I think I should have to pay for my travel and other costs, but should it be counted as work time or vacation (which is actually all taken with child care)? How far into an organisation should the offer of immersion trips go?

I work in the IT department of a large NGO in the UK. I don’t need the knowledge gained from an immersion trip to help me in my daily struggles with SQL programming, but I would like the opportunity to go and I’m sure it would improve my motivation hugely. In my case, I think I should have to pay for my travel and other costs, but should it be counted as work time or vacation (which is actually all taken with child care)?

]]> By: Mary http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608&cpage=1#comment-240568 Mary Sun, 09 Sep 2012 22:01:22 +0000 http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608#comment-240568 thought-provoking discussion! I think the aim of immersion should not be to provide the "answers" to an issue, but to remind people that issues are generally complex and it is real people with their human frailties and strengths and differences that are being dealt with, so beware of simple answers! I am disappointed that many people working in aid never even take local transport!! thought-provoking discussion!

I think the aim of immersion should not be to provide the “answers” to an issue, but to remind people that issues are generally complex and it is real people with their human frailties and strengths and differences that are being dealt with, so beware of simple answers!

I am disappointed that many people working in aid never even take local transport!!

]]> By: Nicholas http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608&cpage=1#comment-240329 Nicholas Sun, 09 Sep 2012 09:34:57 +0000 http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608#comment-240329 I wish I could say that simply imagining employing people in NGOs 'nearer' to the grassroots was a solution. Being employed in a formal entity grants status, at every level, that can subtly detach you from your constituency. I noticed this first when working in South India on issues of mental health (which generates remarkable barriers of prejudice of its own) where village workers in disability were systemically not 'seeing' it. The adjustment of their attention came from 'without' (specialist workers) and 'within' encountering the mentally ill themselves. Grassroots are remarkably diverse, entangled and sometimes need perspective to be seen... Immersion can help because it takes different viewpoints into a community situation including the potential for challenging the 'host' NGO and its purported 'connectivity' to the said community. My own living for two weeks with a micro-finance client in the Philippines was personally invaluable in reconstructing my thinking of what I thought we as an organisation was doing, shifting the emphasis from credit to savings, from 'making entrepreneurs' to building resilience and social capital in ways that positively changed what we were offering the communities we worked with. Incidentally, I still exchange Christmas cards with my host family 15 years on and the accompanying family letter has been a vivid chronicle of how a particular family has demonstrated extraordinary resourcefulness in adapting to change: positive and negative (as well as being fun)! I wish I could say that simply imagining employing people in NGOs ‘nearer’ to the grassroots was a solution. Being employed in a formal entity grants status, at every level, that can subtly detach you from your constituency. I noticed this first when working in South India on issues of mental health (which generates remarkable barriers of prejudice of its own) where village workers in disability were systemically not ’seeing’ it. The adjustment of their attention came from ‘without’ (specialist workers) and ‘within’ encountering the mentally ill themselves. Grassroots are remarkably diverse, entangled and sometimes need perspective to be seen…

Immersion can help because it takes different viewpoints into a community situation including the potential for challenging the ‘host’ NGO and its purported ‘connectivity’ to the said community. My own living for two weeks with a micro-finance client in the Philippines was personally invaluable in reconstructing my thinking of what I thought we as an organisation was doing, shifting the emphasis from credit to savings, from ‘making entrepreneurs’ to building resilience and social capital in ways that positively changed what we were offering the communities we worked with.

Incidentally, I still exchange Christmas cards with my host family 15 years on and the accompanying family letter has been a vivid chronicle of how a particular family has demonstrated extraordinary resourcefulness in adapting to change: positive and negative (as well as being fun)!

]]> By: David Fischer http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608&cpage=1#comment-239949 David Fischer Sat, 08 Sep 2012 12:06:16 +0000 http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608#comment-239949 I worked on the World Bank's South Asia Village Immersion Program for their senior economists. Week-long homestays were combined with discussion visits from civil society, social leaders, civil servants, provincial government, etc. After several successful tours, we started to see the impact on the gap between the grassroots and the macro policy. Cultural changes, teamwork, planning and policy all changes because the output of the staff started to reflect their individual immersion programs. One of the greatest moments for me was when a particular approach was being discussed at a meeting, and one of the immersion participants (a senior economist) spoke up and said, "That's a very good idea, but it wouldn't have worked in my village", and proceeded to explain his experience. Immersion programs, when done properly, can have an impact on both corporate culture, strategy, and programming. I worked on the World Bank’s South Asia Village Immersion Program for their senior economists. Week-long homestays were combined with discussion visits from civil society, social leaders, civil servants, provincial government, etc.

After several successful tours, we started to see the impact on the gap between the grassroots and the macro policy. Cultural changes, teamwork, planning and policy all changes because the output of the staff started to reflect their individual immersion programs.

One of the greatest moments for me was when a particular approach was being discussed at a meeting, and one of the immersion participants (a senior economist) spoke up and said, “That’s a very good idea, but it wouldn’t have worked in my village”, and proceeded to explain his experience.

Immersion programs, when done properly, can have an impact on both corporate culture, strategy, and programming.

]]> By: Maliha Khan http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608&cpage=1#comment-239660 Maliha Khan Fri, 07 Sep 2012 20:00:00 +0000 http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=11608#comment-239660 As another anthropologist who has worked on applied research, I absolutely have to agree with Doug, we have been doing "immersions" since the beginning of the discipline. My first experience was as a student doing my master thesis research in Pakistan, where I spent 4 months "immersed" in a village in the Northern Areas. The issue is complex though, and by no means are any one (or even two) of the dimensions/experiences/competencies described above constitute a magic bullet. The business we are in (not sure what to call it) is complex, and all the different things make me a better practitioner in it: I am a southern national, and have done cumulatively many years of work in poor and marginal locations imbedded in the context, and have worked with grassroots organizations and traditional and conventional institutions... ...but... ...I am from a middle class and well educated background; I am fluent in an international language, am trained and educated internationally and have worked with mutli-lateral organizations and international NGOs. Which of these gives me a privileged position to be an expert on poverty? None in themselves, but all of them combined possibly do. The key then, perhaps, is to take bright, intelligent, committed individuals (southern, northern, western, eastern...hell, the issue is so complex I would take people from middle earth!) and equip them with all the tools, skills, experiences, competencies that we can lay our hands on. So if that means that there is a bright, well educated, articulate and dedicated northern individual who has never had the opportunity to experience what poverty is really like first hand, then we send them on an immersion experience. Just like if we have a really bright and dedicated person from a vulnerable and marginalized group who does not have the skills to convincingly present to international audiences, we train them to that. As another anthropologist who has worked on applied research, I absolutely have to agree with Doug, we have been doing “immersions” since the beginning of the discipline. My first experience was as a student doing my master thesis research in Pakistan, where I spent 4 months “immersed” in a village in the Northern Areas.
The issue is complex though, and by no means are any one (or even two) of the dimensions/experiences/competencies described above constitute a magic bullet. The business we are in (not sure what to call it) is complex, and all the different things make me a better practitioner in it:
I am a southern national, and have done cumulatively many years of work in poor and marginal locations imbedded in the context, and have worked with grassroots organizations and traditional and conventional institutions…
…but…
…I am from a middle class and well educated background; I am fluent in an international language, am trained and educated internationally and have worked with mutli-lateral organizations and international NGOs.
Which of these gives me a privileged position to be an expert on poverty? None in themselves, but all of them combined possibly do.
The key then, perhaps, is to take bright, intelligent, committed individuals (southern, northern, western, eastern…hell, the issue is so complex I would take people from middle earth!) and equip them with all the tools, skills, experiences, competencies that we can lay our hands on. So if that means that there is a bright, well educated, articulate and dedicated northern individual who has never had the opportunity to experience what poverty is really like first hand, then we send them on an immersion experience. Just like if we have a really bright and dedicated person from a vulnerable and marginalized group who does not have the skills to convincingly present to international audiences, we train them to that.

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